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Knife making weld fail.


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#1 R. McWilliams

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:56 PM

The steel is virgin automotive spring steel tempered from the factory.
The pommel was rosset welded.
Peening to blend resulted in the pommel breaking off.

RondellDaggerFail1.jpg

The metal crystallized and snapped like glass.

[D'oh]

R.

(edited to reduce pic size)

Edited by R. McWilliams, 16 November 2010 - 11:50 AM.

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#2 PTsideshow

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:44 AM

Ron it is better if your photo's are no larger than 800x 800 pixels. That is a size that will fit on most computer screens without a lot of scr5olling up and down and side to side.
What I can see of it it looks like it would have been a nice piece
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#3 BucketObolts

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 08:20 AM

I have not had the best luck welding leaf springs with a wire feed welder. I don't know what the best way to weld those springs. I would guess TIG or stick with the proper rod.

Scott



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#4 AvishaiW

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 10:16 AM

To my poor knowledge, If you weld it with regular MIG or with steel electrode, the weld area is hardening and becomes brittle. I had a part of an old automatic lathe that broke last week and I went to a specialist welder because I did not want to risk a whole machine due to a non professional weld ( a 60 years old , fully automatic Swiss type lathe, no spares available). The part is made of cast steel. He used TIG welding with stainless steel wire in order to leave the Austenitic structure of the steel. The part is working under very strong vibrations and is as good as new.

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#5 R. McWilliams

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:53 AM

Yes, I did not know what I was doing.
Oh well, I bought a pre finished blade on EBay I can play with.

Ron

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#6 BucketObolts

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 04:07 PM

Yes, I did not know what I was doing.
Oh well, I bought a pre finished blade on EBay I can play with.

Ron

That is how you learn. Keep at it!

Scott



What you have to do is to think that each leg, foot, ear or whatever is a separate sculpture and all together make the finish piece.


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#7 Closing Rivets Up

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 07:18 PM

Ron, please forgive me for pointing out the obvious. Automotive springs have been clipped together for decades and at one time riveted together.

But, if I had to do it, I would try some stainless steel wire, it has good elongation and might work for such a small weld. Just a thought.

Jim.

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#8 John B

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 02:55 PM

I am not familiar with the term Rosset Weld, but could you not have annealed the area after welding and before peening?

#9 KNeilson

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 04:35 PM

Ron, I agree that SS may work for this, however you will have a color matching problem then. You may be able to do what you want if you were to preheat the pommell and tenon before you weld, get the weld done , and post heat after. Experimentation will tell exact amounts of heat and time neccesary. When welding steels with higher amounts of carbon, rapidly, you will get a area adjacent to the weld (HAZ) that will be quite brittle as it has quenched when the weld material cooled. Preheat and post heat helps with this. imho......... [Smile] Kerry
Q.... Is the pommel spring steel also?

Edited by KNeilson, 17 November 2010 - 04:38 PM.


#10 R. McWilliams

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:12 PM

No, the pommel is 1018 mild steel.
I suppose I could try and fix it but I am bummed out on that project right now.
I will put it back on the shelf for later.
Thank you guys for the information on how to fix it.

John,
A rosette weld is same as a plug weld IMHO.
The tang was cut 1/8" short of the end of the pommel then welded from the top side.
That small broken weld... was where it broke again when I tried to fix it on the underside.
I was tapping the pomel back into plumb, and it snapped just like the tang.

[Doh!]

Ron

PS: Anyone need some virgin automotive spring steel?
I have part of the stick left over.
It worked on my left hand dagger and sword... as I did not do any welding on it.
Knife&Sword2.jpg

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#11 John B

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 02:50 AM

Thanks Ron, you have just got to anneal/normalise in a situation like that before trying to beat on it

Nice work on the sword and dagger




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