Jump to content


Photo

Side Blast forge


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 oddist

oddist

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 02:06 PM

I came across an article on how to construct a Side Blast Forge in the Anvils's Horn, published by the Arizona Blacksmith Association.

Appears to be an interesting approach to a forge.

Anyone know anything about this type of forge?

I also found that the Blacksmith's Journal issue 174 has instructions to build one.

Anyone have this issue? I'd appriciate a copy of the article.

Thanks.[Beer]



Corrected thread title spelling/moderator ptsideshow
oddist
http://www.torchandpalette.com

"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006

#2 Matt Weber

Matt Weber

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3,533 posts
  • LocationChandler, AZ

Posted 12 June 2006 - 03:14 PM

What are the advantages of a forge with burners on the side?

Oddist, i'm not the forge expert, but I have built three of them with three different types of burners. I have also read a lot on this topic. Based on all this, here's my humble opinion: People tend to overthink these things big time. Ask yourself one question: Do you want to forge weld with it? If so, I'd use coal/coke. If not, almost ANY design/burner combo is going to make your steel bright orange. Assuming of course you use refactory high temperature insulation.

I've read all the best ways: Swirling heat, door/no door, correct number of burners, etc etc. I'm sure some designs are better than others but geez, your just heating steel. I just think that a lot of info out there is over done.

Ask Alfredo about the "Sidewinder Forge Plans" [Beer]

Ron Reils burners work very good. Keep the following things in your design and you will be happy.

1. The inside of a forge will get torn up quickly. If you use Kaowool, use must coat it with ITC-100.
2. Heck, you should ALWAYS coat the inside of your forge with ITC-100
3. Think about what you will be putting in there. There is no "one size fits all" forge. The smaller the volume the quicker and hotter it will get, but this will also limit what you can put in.
4. Burner overkill is ok. Just valve each burner to shut off the ones you don't need. Cold spots are annoying.
5. BBQ propane tanks suck. Yes they will work, but they suck. They tend to freeze up. Daisy chain a bunch together or buy a bigger tank. 100# tank is real nice.

Possible materials: Fire bricks, kiln bricks, refactory cement, kaowool in a large pipe, etc etc

Just build a sturdy design, follow these steps (and others you have read) and you'll be smashing metal in no time.

#3 oddist

oddist

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 03:46 PM

Matt,

From your response I guess this type of forge is not that common...

The Side Blast Forge of which I speak uses coal or coke and has its air supply injected from the side rather than the bottom. The air injection nozzle is also water cooled.

Sorry I don't have a picture of it but that's why I started this thread.

The thing I found interesting is that since the air is injected from the side into the coal the clinkers form below the air nozzle; unlike the common bottom air supply type of forge where the air blows up through the clinkers.

So, my search is still on for some info...

Was searching a bit and came up with this site...

http://www.beautiful...temp_images.htm
oddist
http://www.torchandpalette.com

"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006

#4 Matt Weber

Matt Weber

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 3,533 posts
  • LocationChandler, AZ

Posted 12 June 2006 - 03:57 PM

I see.....it sounded like a propane forge.

#5 Mark Emig

Mark Emig

    Knows just enough to get in real trouble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 420 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 04:49 PM

Hey Oddist,
A side blast forge is primarily used with coke, but can be used for coal too. The nice thing is that you can build a much longer firebox, which means longer heats. I would suggest that you think about what kind of work you will be using it for, then build the forge that fits that type of work. The thing about long heats is that if you are doing hand work, you can't work fast enough to use that length of heat. The long heats are great for twisting long pieces though. If you are working big stock (inch square and up) the long heats are great if you are running a power hammer. I have a coke forge with a round firepot, got it from centaur a while back, and I get plenty of heat from it, and the heats are long enough for about 99 % of what I do. The one thing I have found though, is no matter what I get, my next job is usually one that needs a different piece of equipment! Hope I didn't muddy things up too badly for you,
Mark

#6 Grizz

Grizz

    Just bearly here.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 602 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 04:56 PM

If you want to know about the side draft forge talk to Mark Aspry, He owns and teaches at Sierra Forge in CA and has done numerous demos and classes for us here in AZ. Mark will be doing some classes again in the fall in Phx and Tucson if any one is interested. He swears by this and after watching his demos he is correct. It is the way to go. Also welding with coal is easier but it is not uncommon to forge weld with propane. At the AABA demo in Feb which I was not able to attend they had a number of demonstrators doing it with diffeent propane forges. I'm so upset I wasn't able to make that hammer-in.
"GRIZZ"

Maker of unique one of a kind Ironwork, vessels and repousse'

#7 Alfredo Alamo

Alfredo Alamo

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 911 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 07:33 PM

[quote=Innovational Iron]
Ask Alfredo about the "Sidewinder Forge Plans"
Alfredo Alamo
www.alfredoalamo.com

#8 oddist

oddist

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts

Posted 12 June 2006 - 11:34 PM

Thanks all...

What I'm trying to do right now is evaluate all the options out there so I don't make any stupid mistakes and put together equipment I don't need.

My son picked up the coal I ordered yesterday and we will probably put together a simple "brake-drum" forge to start with.

As we figure out what each of us wants to do our tools will probably grow. I know one of the first things I want is a treadle hammer.

I joined ABANA the other day and will probably join the New England Blacksmith group.

And Mark...you're somewhere North of NY city...what are the chances of me coming down from NH and visiting with you sometime? After all, it was you that brought up the subject of an East Coast metal mash.
oddist
http://www.torchandpalette.com

"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006

#9 Mark Emig

Mark Emig

    Knows just enough to get in real trouble

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 420 posts

Posted 13 June 2006 - 03:05 AM

Hey there,
Sounds good to me! I've been meaning to see if anyone wants to get together at my shop. Its' small and cramped-but I've got a bunch of nice tools. I am about 1 hour south of Albany NY-2 hours north of NYC. I've got a 110 big blue hammer, fly press, plasma cutter,tig,mig, bandsaw,lathe, and the newest toy-I mean tool- a milling machine, and a 4x8 layout table. Mark

#10 boilerman

boilerman

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 34 posts

Posted 13 June 2006 - 01:39 PM

here is alittle talk of forges....and of side blown forges....check the links and the posted pics...lots of info
http://www.shopfloor...read.php?t=7575

#11 mannych

mannych

    Shop Sweeper

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 8 posts

Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:44 AM

The advantages are that you spend less time worrying about a fried tuyere plus, slag and clinker are more easily cleaned due to the nature of the forge pan in this type of forge. Side blown tables have a sloped center and not a so-called 'firepot' the bloom or ducks nest is formed within the mound of coke or un-coked coal mounded to form the forging pile.
Vaughn - an English firm producing anvils, vises, tools and forges for smiths has a site that has information and specs on their particular offering.
I used a bellows side-blown hearth forge at a local tradepost re-enactment site one summer as the smith, as I did occasionally when I would help the formal smith. (I am thinking of making one this Spring and using it for forging, it is simple to make, maintain and a heck of a lot of fun! And you can use charcoal~ ) He argued with me that one could not forge weld due to the fact he couldn't get a forging heat up with the forge... I politely proved him wrong by adding to the sides of the hearth pan a metal collar and filling it with the oak charcoal to a depth of 6" or 7". The hearth was about 20" long and 16" wide, I showed the young fella that you just had to add enough coal to make a decent forging fire, and you could weld with charcoal briquettes if you had to! Really impressed him... the site managers were just being cheap cause they didn't have a way of showing how they got the oak charcoal in a site like that in the first place... (being modern supplies were in the southern part of the state for 50lb. bags and a bit spendy even in quantity), but he caught on and found that even with the extra usage he could be economical in welding~ Shows to go ya, that smiths have to be enterprising folks!

famous last words-"OOPS!"

#12 Mercury

Mercury

    Metal Master

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 261 posts

Posted 30 April 2007 - 11:15 AM

Hi Oddist.
My old hand cranked buffalo forge is a side draft. Im burning anthracite due to lack of other fuel. Motorised the blower, found a truck brake drum thet fits nicely on top of the forgepan. My pan was to shallow so by adding the brake drum I isolate the heat more. The drum has a hole in the side where my blower nozzle fits through. Works great!
[Kewl Pic]
Merc[/b]
Please be patient- I think as fast as I type and I type one-fingered!

#13 Dolly

Dolly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 01 May 2007 - 01:51 PM

See vaughans website. I've recently bought this forge an anvil and some tools from them!

http://anvils.co.uk/

#14 oddist

oddist

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 438 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 02:00 PM

Merci!

I was just going to post and ask for the website address. I searched and didn't get a hit. Misspelling didn't help.

I was also going to ask if anyone has a set of simple plans for a home-made side blaster. Might be good to try before investing big bucks.

Thanks again.[Peace}
oddist
http://www.torchandpalette.com

"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006

#15 David S.

David S.

    Metal Master

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 02:25 PM

Oddist,

The July 2005 issue of "Blacksmiths Journal" has plans for a side draft (Tue Iron) forge. Their website is www.blacksmithsjournal.com. There was another article about side draft forges back in 1992, but I don't have the exact issue before me right now. If you have never seen the Journal, go their website; its quite a good publication, mostly of projects and blacksmithing ideas and Jerry Hoffman the publisher, et al., seems like real good people.

Dave

#16 Everything Mac

Everything Mac

    Skilled Metalsmith

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 74 posts

Posted 24 May 2007 - 07:03 AM

Being such a noob - im a little confused!

- by side draft - do yo mean quite litterally - blasting air in from the side?
- does this not create a very channeled air flow - or a ...not so good forge?

could some one put ap a picture please!

many thanks

#17 forging-fool

forging-fool

    Skilled Metalsmith

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:21 AM

The one draw back to the side draft forge is you get a very dirty fire after about 4 hours. So make sure you do any welding in the morning. I was taught by my old master to prepare scarfs for welding at the end of the day. Then weld them all in one go in the morning once the fire has been riddled.

I'm just moving over to a bottom blast pot for the first time, after using one at the BABA conference in England this summer. Any tips on using one?
He's either mad or both.

www.michaelbudd.ie

#18 ornametalsmith

ornametalsmith

    Ornamental metalsmith

  • Metal Artist Forum Sponsor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,032 posts

Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:18 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, [Welcome] wouldn't be the first time. BUT....has this thread switched horses in mid stream? started talking about SIDE BLAST forges and now it's SIDE DRAFT forges. Two different critters, aren't they?

One relates to the way the forced air enters and the other relates to the way the forge exhausts.......doesn't it?


[/b]
Bill
http://www.CustomDesignMetalArts.com/
http://www.FloridianForge.com/

Class/Workshop info:
http://www.customdes...com/studio.html
Specializing in: Teaching and Making
hand forged and cast works of Metal Art.
Crafted with the utmost attention to detail.
For discriminating tastes and opulent surroundings

Posted Image

#19 Frosty

Frosty

    Maker of things

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 775 posts

Posted 05 October 2007 - 09:59 PM

Maybe I'm missing something, [Welcome] wouldn't be the first time. BUT....has this thread switched horses in mid stream? started talking about SIDE BLAST forges and now it's SIDE DRAFT forges. Two different critters, aren't they?

One relates to the way the forced air enters and the other relates to the way the forge exhausts.......doesn't it?


[/b]


Well. Of COURSE you're missing SOMETHING Bull. [Welcome]

Outside of one or maybe two posts and one person I believe means side blast and said side draft instead, I think the thread is holding pretty steady on "Side Blast" forges.

I don't know why they'd be dirtier than a bottom blast but I've never used one. Outside of a camp fire but that's a different story(s).

Frostillio
Carpe Extremitas Frigus!

#20 forging-fool

forging-fool

    Skilled Metalsmith

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 90 posts

Posted 06 October 2007 - 12:14 AM

Thanks Frosty, English has never been my strong point.

It is dirtier because the excess ash has no where to drop out of the fire, so you get a build-up through out the day. How ever it is a very good method and when used with a side draft even better. If you want to make one for your self you can use the center socket of an old cartwheel for a tue iron.
He's either mad or both.

www.michaelbudd.ie




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users